Minutes of the Occupational Education Committee of the Academic Senate, 9/24/02

In attendance:

Bob Ware, Chair

Helen LeDonne

Marvin Martinez

Jan McKay

Judith Penchansky

Vicki Rothman

Edie Spain

John Verdugo

Special Guests:

Maria Alvarado

Maria Cook

Bob Ware called the meeting to order at 3:55 p.m.

Bob reminded the committee members that the mission of the committee is to act as liaison between occupational programs and to promote them. He added that one of the purposes of the committee is to find a project to work on.

Maria Alvarado, one of the special guests, was representing Laurie Frederic, Chair of Counseling.

Maria suggested that we need a process to streamline the information flowing from the occupational programs to the Counseling Department.

She further suggested that packets of information should be organized by the vocational/occupational departments and sent to Counseling. These packets could be easily updated.

She stated that SMC has done an outstanding job with transfer students and perhaps we need to begin to put the same kind of effort to assist vocational/occupational students.

Bob asked Maria if she felt that the communication with vocational / occupational programs is adequate.

She replied by stating that she is the liaison with the automotive area. She further made an observation that there is a need for the college to begin to look at the vocational areas to focus on priorities. She pointed out that SMC has placed a lot of effort on our transfer mission. Students come to SMC with the intention of transferring to 4-year colleges/universities because of the reputation of SMC.

Maria stated that in the end not all students are going to transfer. Maria believes that the largest majority of students that counseling deals with are enrolled in vocational / occupational programs. However, initially, students declare transfer as their goal.

She added that public relations activities center around transfer mission of the college. More and current information is needed by counselors to provide to students. She stated that contact between counseling and vocational / occupational programs is rather limited. She cited the Bus Maintenance Program as an example. She indicated that the information came to counseling too late for counselors to share at new student orientation. Maria added that Cosmetology has sent very good information to Counseling to disseminate to students. In Maria’s opinion, Automotive may be losing students to other colleges that may have more cutting edge types of programs. She indicated that we need to make the occupational programs more competitive with what is being offered at other institutions, including proprietary schools. She added that it may be advisable to get the feedback from the entire Counseling Department as to what kind of information would be useful for them to have through a questionnaire.

Maria stated that even though Counseling’s objective is not to refer students to programs outside of SMC, Counseling is referring students to other community colleges or programs that may offer majors/programs that SMC doesn’t offer such as Culinary, which gets a lot of inquiries.

Also, there’s an emphasis on the part of students on short-term programs rather than long-term programs. Business certificates are acknowledged as short-term.

Bob asked whether this has been a long-term problem or a recent one?

Maria responded that it has been a long-term pattern, not a problem, but it’s where the college has decided to place emphasis.

Maria informed the committee that she was involved in programs for women in the vocational area about 5 years ago and she noticed a shortage of occupational programs even then.

The Cosmetology Department transformed their classes from long-term to short term and they have noticed a significant increase in the demand for those classes. Also, air brushing and advanced make up are in demand because of the movie industry.

Marvin pointed out that low enrollment is a complex issue. Low enrollments aren’t necessarily a lack of support from Counseling. He added that the modification of the curriculum was motivated by low enrollments. As a result of the upgrading and reforming of the curriculum, the program is in higher demand. He encouraged program leaders to look at the labor market data to find out what’s in demand.

Photography also reformed its curriculum.

Judy Penchansky pointed out that the community college system is rather slow at reacting to the demands in industry. For example, it took Cosmetology two years to reform its curriculum. The program grew by word of mouth. Flyers, which were distributed at new student orientation, were used for publicity purposes, but no other advertisement was done. In the program students learn the basics to earn their license.

The following were identified as sources of information for students: counselors, the class schedule; high school presentations

Maria was asked whether a counselor is assigned to every program as liaison. In Business Patrick Kerwin is the liaison. Bob asked for a list of Counselor liaisons.

Bob asked whether the curriculum committee was open to changes in the Cosmetology curriculum? Helen pointed out that Cosmetology had not changed the program. They broke down the curriculum into smaller modules. They are still teaching the same material.

The following question was posed: If there is no state requirement to complete the Cosmetology requirements, what would be the demand?

Jan pointed out that students seem to enjoy and focus better in short term classes.

Child Development fills the evening classes more easily than afternoon and morning classes. Edie feels that it is because students work in the day time and it’s more difficult for them to get to class.

Counselors were a product of the transfer culture of the College. It is easier for a counselor to advise students on transfer because the information is more readily available and it’s updated regularly, whereas vocational information is not.

A flow chart, such as the one for the Photography program is very helpful for counselors and students. Other programs, such as Graphic Design, use a flow chart as well.

SMC uses the transfer model to counsel vocational occupational students. The following questions were posed: What does liaison mean? What makes vocational programs at other colleges strong? The counselor at the academy has extensive knowledge about the AET programs because she was immersed in the program. But, we are not using this model throughout SMC. The AET model is the exception.

It was suggested that this is the model of counseling/advising that is being used at universities where they have advisors assigned to every program/department.

Bob asked Maria Alvarado and Maria Cook to attend the next meeting of the Occupational Education Committee to continue the discussion.

John Verdugo and Vicki Rothman reported that they had attempted to get auto dealers to adopt students on apprentice basis; however, auto dealers do not want to take the time to train students. As cars become more computerized, dealers want to hire students with experience, but they do not want to take the time to train them.

Marvin re-emphasized that the programs need to review labor market statistics and to view the programs as career ladders.

Departments also need to be willing to change scheduling patters. Example: Photography runs classes between 7:30 a.m. and 10:00 p.m.

On the question of funding, John Gonzalez clarified that one of the factors used in determining VTEA funding is completion rates, which include transfer, AA degrees AND occupational certificates,

John also reminded the committee of the importance of community building. Research shows that students who come to college with an idea of what they want to study have a tendency to succeed at a higher level and have higher retention and persistence rates.

We need people at Brenda Johnson and Laurie Frederic’s level as decision makers in order to get some support.

The meeting was adjourned at 5:15.

Respectfully submitted by John Gonzalez, Secretary.